Wretched: Brainy Yakking: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire
Brainy Yakking: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire
Often we summarize the ninth commandment as, “You shall not lie.” It is a good summary, but the actual command is "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor”
(Exodus 20:16). Of course, to lie is to bear false witness, and a lie will certainly violate the ninth commandment. But I wonder if we sometimes miss the broader application of the commandment by focusing too narrowly.
I think that it is entirely possible to violate this commandment without even uttering a word. The authors of the Westminster Larger Catechism thought so too. According to them, each commandment has both a positive and a negative intention. In other words, each commandment requires certain duties and forbids certain sins. We break God’s law if we fail to fulfill the duties it requires. We also break God’s law if we commit the sins it forbids. These are sometimes referred to as “sins of omission” (failing to do what we ought to do) and “sins of commission” (doing what we ought not to do).
Here are the duties required by the ninth commandment (WLC 144):
- The preserving and promoting of truth between man and man
- The preserving and promoting the good name of our neighbor, as well as our own
- Appearing and standing for the truth
- From the heart, sincerely, freely, clearly, and fully, speaking the truth, and only the truth, in matters of judgment and justice, and in all other things whatsoever
- A charitable esteem of our neighbors
- Loving, desiring, and rejoicing in the good name of our neighbors
- Sorrowing for and covering of our neighbor’s infirmities
- Freely acknowledging our neighbor’s gifts and graces
- Defending their innocency of our neighbor
- A ready receiving of a good report, and unwillingness to admit of an evil report concerning our neighbor
- Discouraging talebearers, flatterers, and slanderers
- Love and care of our own good name, and defending it when need requires
- Keeping of lawful promises
- Studying and practicing of whatsoever things are true, honest, lovely, and of good report
Next, we will examine the sins forbidden by the ninth commandment. But for now, focus on and discuss the duties required by it.
-Brainiac
COMMENTARIES
C.FIf you wife looks fat, should you tell her? From each numerical item from the list above:
1) No. Truth is only between men.
2) No.
3) Yes.... See More
4) Yes.
5) No.
6) No.
7) Yes or no.
8) NA.
9) NA.
10) No.
11) Yes or no.
12) NA.
13) Only if she asks.
14) Yes or no.
W.V.R.I know for sure that if you're smart you will never volunteer this information.
W.S.(Rick)
Carlos, the depth and profundity of your thinking is simply amazing! You are truly an asset to this conversation. Thank you! I mean it. You are not a waste of anyone’s time at all. And no, your post does not make you look foolish.
V.M.@Rick> Is that the truth?
V.M.The freedom to be truthful without fear is wonderful.
L.A.@C. K. to you for your persistence. Think of what you could accomplish if you were helping spread God's word with that same persistence. I pray that God opens your eyes and your heart because it seems as though you are being misled (from the several posts I've seen by you). I'm being genuine, not mean. I've said what I came to say and am not going to argue. So don't bother posting back. I just felt led to say something.
S.W.J.whew!.....I'm so glad my salvation does not depend on me keeping the law!!
E.L.H.Amen Sandy!
D.J.@Carlos - My wife constantly asks me if her pants make her look fat. I answer with complete honesty and tell her, no... The pants are not at fault.
Having said that though, most 6 year-olds understand the difference between lying as a sin forbidden by God and simply not wanting to hurt someone's feelings.
J.T.Adhering to the TC sounds easy to some--at least on the surface. However, when we dig deeper and realize what it is to truly keep them, perfectly without fail, only one conclusion can arise: Epic failure.
H.M.D.Let your yea be yea and your nay be nay. As for the wife . Don't ask stupid questions. That's like asking, "Do you ever get tired of beating your wife?'
C.F.Danny, where in the Bible does it explain when YOU get to determine whether it is ok to lie, to protect someone's feelings?
C.F.Rick, please don't cast any more pearls before me. Ever.
C.F.Well, Danny, your (and just about everyone else on this forum) picking and choosing which parts of the Bible (in other words, your hyporcrisy) you can obey (while out of the otherside of your mouth touting it as perfect) is becoming tiresome.
Can't you answer my question, above? I thought not.
V.M.B.The law was given to show us that we can't keep it as fallen mankind. That's why Jesus had to die. I'm sure I fail continuously at all these things but thank God it's covered under the blood.
J.F.L.Carlos, there are lots of post above.. so I can't figure out what your question was.. could you repeat it please for me..
S.C.Carlos is bored at work again, and trolling for a fight, it makes him feel better about himself. He LOVES it when people talk about him. Right now I am feeding his ego. Watch out, someone might be stealing something from your store...;-) LOL
J.H."Rick, please don't cast any more pearls before me. Ever."
Wow. Well, at least you know what you are.
W.B.Carlos, the people on this board are not attempting to do away with the ninth commandment. Ultimately any true follower of the God of the Bible should ALWAYS be trying to follow the Ten Commandments ( not out of obligation, but love BTW). In response to your question, I think both answers have a great deal of biblical backing, and we need to be ... See Moreconsidering ALL of the biblical data. I can understand your frustration at our difficulties in answering such a question, but the idea that we are flippantly tossing aside a commandment is unfounded.
L.S.Carlos what is the greater good? Rahab lied to the men of Jericho in regards to the two spies but she is not condemned for her misleading statement. Carlos if you were married would you tell a rapists your wife is hiding in the next room. To " lie " in those circumstances does not violate the commandment in anyway.
Do you discuss your wife's ... See Moreweight issues out of concern for her health and sincere love and desire to see her personal improvement or is it out of an egotistical and childish desire to hurt her.
Please ask better and more informed questions from now on. You have no sincere desire for knowledge or wisdom because with every good answer given you you ask an even more inane question.
I do pray for you Carlos just don't harden you heart any longer
God bless
W.M.well, if your wife asks, be honest. if she doesnt, is it necessary to bring it up? if you are concerned about her appearance or health, as a husband you should have a close enough relationship with her to talk to her about it.
D.H.C.If you wife asks and it's true she is fat, plead the 5th!
D.J.@Carlos - Rick is not casting his pearls directly in your path. You just keep jumping in front of them.
If they are that troublesome to you, perhaps you should walk elsewhere. There are countless other venues without all these frustrating contradictions.
M.D.L.I wanted to echo what Jeanie said above. Never ask a question to which you don't want an honest reply. Too many women manipulate their husbands like that.
R.M.@Carlos-There's this thing called discretion. That's different then telling a lie.
R.M.Discretion:
–noun
1.
the power or right to decide or act according to one's own judgment; freedom of judgment or choice: It is entirely within my discretion whether I will go or stay.
2.... See More
the quality of being discreet, esp. with reference to one's own actions or speech; prudence or decorum: Throwing all discretion to the winds, he blurted out the truth.
—Idiom
3.
at discretion, at one's option or pleasure: They were allowed to work overtime at discretion.
J. S.What looks fat to one person might not be to another.
C.F.Carlos is bored at work again, and trolling
for a fight, it makes him feel better about
himself. He LOVES it when people talk about
him. Right now I am feeding his ego. Watch
out, someone might be stealing something... See More
from your store...;-) LOL
Actually off work today. But yes, I do LOVE it when you guys talk about and to me. Just love it. I am very narcisistic, very vain, and not in the least humble.
If they (pearls) are that troublesome to you,
perhaps you should walk elsewhere. There
are countless other venues without all these
frustrating contradictions.
Its not the pearls. I don't mind the rest of you casting them in my path. Its Rick.
I don't want to walk elsewhere. You guys give me EXACTLY what I want by posting about me. Don't you see its all about me? The way to make me leave is to stop talking about me. Its easy.
C.F.Joan wrote:
Carlos, there are lots of post above... so I
can't figure out what your question was...
could you repeat it please for me?... See More
Where in the Bible does it explain when YOU get to determine whether it is ok to lie, to protect someone's feelings?
B.L.When we bear a false witness, against whom do we ultimately sin? Well, God, of course.
Even though it may be a fellow man to whom we lie to, it is ultimately God to whom we are sinning against.
As it is with all of God's commandments:
Remember David, he said "Against you and you only have I sinned and done this evil in your sight." (Psalm 51:4)... See More
Joseph said, "How can I do this evil and sin against God." (Genesis 39:9)
We must realize that when we lie, no matter who we may trespass against, the Sin itself is against God.
-But here's the thing: God knows everything and he knows the truth, so how can we lie to him?
-Its the principle of the matter. He's our Authority. Remember the midwives of Exodus 1, they lied to the Pharaoh and God Blessed them for it.
-But wait...They Lied!
-Maybe(...then again maybe not.) Either way they knew who their ultimate authority was and it was to him who they held themselves accountable to.
Bottom line is this, We do NOT get to determine when it is okay to lie. In any form of that would violate God's 9th commandment. God determines when its okay to lie, and I seriously doubt that he'll ever give permission for that, just ask Ananias and Sapphira.
And finally...Carlos:
I don't know you, you don't know me, but from what I've gathered here today I would conclude that you really don't give much care for the truth to begin with.
We could try and explain, apologize (as in apologetics) and reason out the truth to you and you wouldn't believe any of it anyways.
To give truth to someone who does not care about truth is to just give them more ammunition for misinterpretation. So I would ask, kindly, that you don't read any of this, lest you would be tempted to twist any of this in some way...Thanks!
N.R.H.thank you for clearing that up for me...i have been wondering about that for a long time!
C.G.Carlos, the Bible doesn't explain that because it is not necessary to lie and protecting someone's feelings is not one of God's primary goals.
Jesus often chose silence rather than responding and He was often harsh in His criticism. To your initial question, it is not necessary to say everything that is true. It is only necessary to speak the truth when you must say something. The Bible teaches too many words lead to sin.
J.FL..less is more Carlos... let your yes be yes and your no be no, anymore than this is sin... what does that say about the nightly news programs... oops, they talk to much..
C.F.Benton wrote:
Carlos: I don't know you, you don't know
me, but from what I've gathered here today
I would conclude that you really don't give... See More
much care for the truth to begin with.
You couldn't be more wrong if you were a Mormon.
So I would ask, kindly, that you don't read
any of this, lest you would be tempted to twist
any of this in some way...
I appreciate your kindness. But this thread is all about me. How can you ask me not to read it?
Benton, Christie and Joan seem to think that white lies are still lies, and thus an abomination. They seem to be saying that one should NOT protect the feelings of others, when the truth is on the line. Although perhaps being quiet when one's wife asks is the better solution, according to the Bible. Discretion is shutting up. Even if it lands you on the couch.
Finally, Michelle wrote:
I wanted to echo what Jeanie said above.
Never ask a question to which you don't
want an honest reply. Too many women
manipulate their husbands like that.
I really like Michelle. She is wise woman.
C.F.Rick wrote:
Carlos, the depth and profundity of your
thinking is simply amazing! You are truly an
asset to this conversation. Thank you! I... See More
mean it. You are not a waste of anyone’s
time at all. And no, your post does not
make you look foolish.
I appreciate the kudos! This sort of positive reinforcement of my views (instead of insults) is much more the tone I would expect from "true" Christians. Thanks, Rick!
W.S.Carlos, it took you that long to think of that? Lame.
Do we need to say that she's fat? I don't think so. Do we need to share with our wife's our concern about their weight, sure we do. But we can be honest and still treat her with respect.
If she asks, then you have four options:
1.) Lie (which is breaking the ninth commandment).
2.) Tell her the truth without regard to her feelings.
3.) Speak the truth in love.
4.) Say nothing (change the topic, tell her you don't want to talk about that, whatever.)
Brainy Yakking: Beyond Fat Wives and Nazis
Whenever the topic of lying comes up it is inevitable that
someone will ask about little white lies to protect feelings, and misinformation to thwart genocidal ne'er-do-wells. There are two groups of people who ask these questions. The first group is those arrogant fools who are looking for an excuse, any excuse to justify their rebellion against God. The second group is those sincere Christians with a tender conscience, who genuinely fear being caught in a scenario that will tempt them to violate the ninth commandment. To the first group I say, considering your persistent denial of the Truth Himself, stout spouses and curious killers are the least of your worries. To the second group I say, praise God for your tender conscience and your aversion to violate His will! Now trust Him to help you overcome in your hour of tempting. I have every confidence that He who gave you a heart to obey His will can also give you the wisdom and strength to carry you through temptation. Moreover, if you stumble; He can pick you up again.
But let us move beyond fat wives and Nazis. Let us focus on the spirit of the ninth commandment and the sins it forbids.
The sins forbidden by the ninth commandment (WLC 145)
- All prejudicing the truth, and the good name of our neighbors, as well as our own, especially in public judicatur
- Giving false evidence
- Suborning false witnesses
- Wittingly appearing and pleading for an evil cause
- Outfacing and overbearing the truth
- Passing unjust sentence
- Calling evil good, and good evil
- Rewarding the wicked according to the work of the righteous, and the righteous according to the work of the wicked
- Forgery
- Concealing the truth
- Undue silence in a just cause
- Holding our peace when iniquity calls for either a reproof from ourselves, or complaint to others
- Speaking the truth unseasonably (ouch)
- Speaking the truth maliciously to a wrong end
- Perverting the truth to a wrong meaning
- Speaking in doubtful and equivocal expressions, to the prejudice of truth or justice
- Speaking untruth
- Lying
- Slandering
- Backbiting
- Detracting
- Tale bearing
- Whispering (Not speaking in hushed tones, but gossiping, talking behind another’s back)
- Scoffing
- Reviling
- Rash, harsh, and partial censuring
- Misconstructing intentions, words, and actions
- Flattering
- Vainglorious boasting
- Thinking or speaking too highly or too meanly of ourselves or others
- Denying the gifts and graces of God
- Aggravating smaller faults
- Hiding, excusing, or extenuating of sins, when called to a free confession
- Unnecessary discovering of infirmities
- Raising false rumors
- Receiving and countenancing evil reports
- Stopping our ears against just defense
- Evil suspicion
- Envying or grieving at the deserved credit of any
- Endeavoring or desiring to impair another’s credit
- Rejoicing in the disgrace and infamy of another
- Scornful contempt
- Too fond an admiration
- Breach of lawful promises
- Neglecting such things as are of good report
- Practicing such things as procure an ill name
- Not avoiding ourselves such things as procure a ill name
- Not hindering, what we can in others, such things as procure an ill name
Is it any wonder that Scripture says that all men are liars?
-Brainiac
COMMENTARIES
C.F.Rick wrote:
To the first group I say, considering your
persistent denial of the Truth Himself, stout
spouses and curious killers are the least of... See More
your worries.
Absolutely!
Still curious about where white lies fall in your 48 above. I was looking, but couldn't find any. Perhaps a couple of them apply (#18? #13?) but perhaps #49 should say "white lies". In such an exhaustive list, it seems there should be no wiggle room. Or are they ok?
I am not sure what #8 says. Is it ok to lie to prevent the wicked from being rewarded? I don't understand that one.
Precious pearls. Thx Brainiac!
J.H.Love yer articles, Rick. Keep up the good work!
N.R.H.i agree with vinny!!!!!!!!!
J.M.thank you Jesus!!
C.F.Rick wrote:
To the first group I say, considering your
persistent denial of the Truth Himself, stout
spouses and curious killers are the least of... See More
your worries.
Absolutely!
Still curious about where white lies fall in your 48 above. I was looking, but couldn't find any. Perhaps a couple of them apply (#18? #13?) but perhaps #49 should say "white lies". In such an exhaustive list, it seems there should be no wiggle room. Or are they ok?
I am not sure what #8 says. Is it ok to lie to prevent the wicked from being rewarded? I don't understand that one.
J.H.Carlos, my friend, your tenacity is so very impressive. Surely, there is not another naysayer alive who so thoroughly enjoys the fellowship of Bible believing christians as much as you do. God bless you, sir.
W.H.Carlos,
Are you asking this to determine how far you can go before you actually sin, or is your conscience tender, and you fear sinning against the Lord?
J.H.In my unfortunate experience during my many years as an atheist, there are no such things as "little white lies." There are little lies and big lies and they are all black. In fact, more often than not, little lies inevitably lead to more and bigger lies. If you are in a situation where the unvarnished truth can be hurtful, why lie? There are other ways to truthfully and tactfully handle the situation and lying at those times is just the sign of a lazy, sinful mind.
D.J.Carlos - Seriously, dude... You tell Rick to never throw pearls of wisdom in your direction, yet you persistently step in the line of fire.
S.F.W.Thank you so much! In "The Hiding Place" by Corrie Ten Boom, she recounts her sister being asked if the Jewish girl she was hiding in her home was Jewish. She was so convinced of the seriousness of lying and sinning against God that she said, "Yes." The result was the imprisonment of her sister and the girl being taken away. When Corrie visited her... See More sister in prison, she came with the news that miraculously the Jewish girl had escaped, and shortly her sister was released. God honored her sister's refusal to sin. God has delivered me from a lying tongue and a deceitful life, and now I, by God's grace, run from dishonesty. The truth has set me free!!!
V.F.Hey guys, I'm trying to find a video to share with my pastor, it's Todd exposing Todd Bentley and his girlfriend/wife on the show. Do you have a link to it?
K.B.H.Just learned a new word: suborn. Thanks!
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